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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 8:22:53 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4245
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Minimum kindergarten age is 5 on September 1 in any district I've ever lived in--at least a dozen in three different states.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 8:28:16 PM
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macokjc
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quote:
21 children of kindergarten age--there is still some "crowd management" there. That is a lot of 3-4-5 yo's in one room.
Yet another exaggeration. Kindergarteners are NOT 3-4 year olds. They are 5 or 6. Twenty one is a lot, but quite manageable with a teacher and an aide.
I know several people who have homeschooled their kindergarteners, and their kids got a stinky education. I know several who did it well. I did 3 of mine, I would like to think I did it well.
To the OP, unfortunately, you have shallow arguments on both your pro/con lists. Schools, if you follow the state laws, are not out to get homeschoolers. Most states have laws that are easy to understand and follow. If you enroll, then pull out, you simply have to follow the rules of your state.
Many districts have quality kindergarten programs. They are much more than a pre-school. Look into yours, meet the teachers, talk to other parents in your district.
Socialization is only a problem if you let it. Unlike 3Capps, I have met many unsocialized homeschoolers. Children who can't carry on a conversation, who don't know how to respond to their peers, and more importantly, who refuse to behave in a classroom setting. I've said it before and I will say it again. In my 12 years of working in children's ministry at our church, with the exception of 1 boy, our biggest behaviour problems were homeschoolers. They just thought that rules did not apply to them. ON the other hand, I have met some very articulate, well-bred homeschoolers that are an absolute joy to be around. There is something to be said about the phrase "All I need to know in life I learned in Kindergarten."
My only other comment is this: You referred to YOU teaching, but also referred to your wife. Who is going to be the actual teacher, and if it is her, is this something you want for her to do, or something she wants to do? That can make a huge difference in the education of the child, and the home-life in general.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 8:31:51 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: theprincessbuttercup
Not to be nosy, but do I live in a bubble? Where are all these schools that are trying to stamp out home-schooling? I don't normally say much about this, but since it is the public and private school support folder, I have always felt relatively safe being a public school person here, so I am a little confused.
I don't think they exist. I think it's some weird homeschooling idea that gets perpetuated by other homeschoolers.
I get regular updates by email from HSLDA and hear about the illegal stuff going on with school districts against homeschoolers as well as foreign governments taking children away from homeschooling parents who were doing a fine job with emotionally healthy children.
HSLDA is a group of Christian lawyers and it would be easily proven if they were making these stories up. They aren't. They tell stories on schools that have backed down from their illegal demands and intimidation tactics, and they name names.
I live in a place where a family had to go to court some years back to win the right for all to homeschool and get this local school system off their backs about it. They go to my church.
Thanks for the further info on Russian schools, BelleWeather! I didn't know those details.
_____________________________
People died to give you the Bible in your language.
Read it. Eat it. Dwell in it. Rightly divide it. Live it.
Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 8:45:01 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 1931
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quote:
Yet another exaggeration. Kindergarteners are NOT 3-4 year olds. They are 5 or 6. Twenty one is a lot, but quite manageable with a teacher and an aide.
Thank you! Exactly - here our kindergarten classroom very rarely have less then 2 adults in the classroom at all times. Often times there is an aide that travels with them to special areas as well!
Now I KNOW this isn't the case everywhere - which is why the OP needs to do some homework in their specific area. He needs to research the school and district in question and see if he can live with what is. He must also research options regarding homeschooling. Then he must pray. And REALLY pray. I have no doubt that he will find his answers.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
"And I usually agree with Garsy, so I'll be quiet now." Stellaluna - July 2010
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 9:19:42 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 516
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quote:
get regular updates by email from HSLDA and hear about the illegal stuff going on with school districts against homeschoolers as well as foreign governments taking children away from homeschooling parents who were doing a fine job with emotionally healthy children.
HSLDA is a group of Christian lawyers and it would be easily proven if they were making these stories up. They aren't. They tell stories on schools that have backed down from their illegal demands and intimidation tactics, and they name names.
The HSLDA does a great job of protecting the rights of homeschoolers, but as in the case from Europe discussed here on Crosswalk not that long ago, they can exaggerate the facts or not tell the whole story. I don't receive their updates anymore, but I did for years. In all the stories I read, there was a rarely a case of a school distirct going after a parent "just because." Most of the times it was mixed signals, administrative error, parental error in filing, or checking up on a report.
Also, you might do well to remember that homeschooling is illegal in many European countries. If a parent breaks the law, whether they feel justified or not, whether we agree or not, it is still breaking the law, and of course they should expect to be challenged on it.
quote:
Really? You've got 3 and 4 year olds going to Kindergarten there? Here they've got to be 5 by Sept 1, and a lot of boys (even a few girls) are held back a year for not being socially ready. We also have a minimum of 2 adults per class for the little ones, and you aren't going to see 30 Kindergarteners in 1 classroom.
Here in PA they cut-off date is Sept. 1st. I over heard one mom saying that the school was giving them a hard time because her son turned five ON Sept. 1st. I've also read somewhere that schools are also making a cut-off age for 1st grade because parents are homeschooling their kids to get around the cut-off date, and they are finding that these kids are not prepared for 1st grade.
< Message edited by macokjc -- 7/25/2010 10:50:25 PM >
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 10:28:24 PM
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Sideways
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Yep, if you want to get around the cut off date here, you've got to home school K and 1st grade. A lot of folks have September and October babies, and they DO NOT like the idea of waiting one whole year to get their kids into school.
You've got kids walking into their first day of Kindy already able to read and write (like my niece) and some walking in barely able to recognize A from B. It's crazy. My niece is going to be bored during Kindergarten, but after that they should be able to place her in advanced classes.
If I homeschooled, it would purely be for academic reasons. Schools around here are pretty good, but we'll see what is best for each kid, year by year. Current default plan is to public school, and then consider alternatives if that isn't working well.
_____________________________
Well behaved women rarely make the history books.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 10:44:09 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4245
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Also, if you haven't, check to see how long the kindergarten day is. Our district has both half-day (three hours) and full day (five hours) programs. "Full" day in kindergarten rarely means it is the same length of time as other grades.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 11:15:29 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 1931
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Also, if you haven't, check to see how long the kindergarten day is. Our district has both half-day (three hours) and full day (five hours) programs. "Full" day in kindergarten rarely means it is the same length of time as other grades.
Again that is different from state to state and likely district to district. AM Half-day kindergarten is from 9AM to 11:50 and PM is from 12:40 to 3:30. All day kindergarten follows the same schedule as the rest of the elementary - 9AM til 3:30 PM.
I chose half day programs for my children - Mostly because my kids didn't NEED to be in full day kindergarten. I wanted to keep the limited openings to go to kids that needed it more than we did. When my younger three were in Kindergarten there was one full day class and 2-4 half day programs and it was a lottery system to get into the full day program UNLESS you were classified as an "at risk" household. We qualified due to income, but I still left the spots in the full day program for other children. I didn't want them, because my children didn't need it. They had me at home. They had plenty of reinforcement of what they were learning at school - with me at home. And they are all preforming well above grade level now!
Like someone said earlier - much of a child's success doesn't depend upon where they were schooled. Much of a child's success depends on the quality of parental involvement regardless of where a child goes to school.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
"And I usually agree with Garsy, so I'll be quiet now." Stellaluna - July 2010
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 11:49:12 PM
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pink..
Posts: 10556
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From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Minimum kindergarten age is 5 on September 1 in any district I've ever lived in--at least a dozen in three different states.
Last I checked in my state, the had to be five by June 1.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/25/2010 11:54:28 PM
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sen10tious
Posts: 235
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enter_address_here,
The undercurrent that I got from reading the OP was that you and your wife are not in 100% agreement. I think your wife wants to homeschool more than you do.
I don't think it is a good idea to give your daughter this "choice." You are the parent, and the parents ought to be deciding what will enable their children to best grow in wisdom and in the love of the Lord.
At this age, what your daughter thinks should not count very highly. If you have chosen well, then maybe when she is as mature as an average 12 year-old she can have a 30% "vote."
_____________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 9:18:19 AM
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macokjc
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quote:
That's still a lot of crowd control going on with 21 5 year olds in a room.
Exaggeration removed. Point stands.
But it doesn't stand. As a trained teacher, let me tell you, any trained teacher can easily handle that - that's what they do. It is however, why kindergarten lasts for 3 1/2 hours, as opposed to the 40 minutes it took me to teach one child. Not every child needs and thrives off of one on one time. Listen, I am not opposed to homeschooling, but these scare tactics are just not true. Millions of chldren thrive every year in kindergarten. They learn to read, learn to play well with others, and have a great time. Do you have bad teachers and bad school districts? Absolutely. But on the flip side, you also have bad parents. Just as it's unfair for people to believe that all homeschoolers are bad parents and bad teachers, it unfair for homeschoolers to continue to perpepuate the myth that all schools are evil places wher children don't thrive.
Whether the OP put their child in kindergarten or homeschools is completely up to them. Nothing has to be a permanent choice. If one or the other doesn't work out, change.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 11:45:27 AM
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theprincessbuttercup
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I have never homeschooled. But I think homeschooling can be wonderful for kids. My best friend does an AWESOME job with her girls. The two homeschool groups we have in this area are large, and they have such great things for the kids -arts, sports, clubs, advanced academics. Research has pretty much quashed the myth that kids who are homeschooled cannot be adequately socialized. So even though I have not chosen that for my family, I can see the value in it.
As a public school mom and teacher, that is all I ask in return. That others would at least be open to the idea that there is some value in where God has led me to send my kids for school, and that my calling as a public school teach is not a vain waste of time. Because whether it is intended or not, when those with whom I will share eternity imply that what I have spent 15 years doing has no value because public schools are "bad," it hurts, plain and simple. If I can see the value in something I have not personally chosen, surely others can as well.
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Jude 24, 25
(My avatar is my daughter's artwork!)
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 12:40:31 PM
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Sunnymom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sen10tious
enter_address_here,
The undercurrent that I got from reading the OP was that you and your wife are not in 100% agreement. I think your wife wants to homeschool more than you do.
I don't think it is a good idea to give your daughter this "choice." You are the parent, and the parents ought to be deciding what will enable their children to best grow in wisdom and in the love of the Lord.
At this age, what your daughter thinks should not count very highly. If you have chosen well, then maybe when she is as mature as an average 12 year-old she can have a 30% "vote."
Cool- an on topic post!  With which I agree! 
Kindergarten is a safe time to 'experiment' with homeschooling. Compulsory attendance in many states begins at 6, so you might not even have to file any paperwork at all this year. As others have suggested, find out what the laws are in your state. Check into the local school and find out what classroom your child would be in if you did enroll her. Meet the teacher and staff asap, and read the school handbook.
Some school districts are a pain in the toochas, and others are very supportive. I've homeschooled in both. If you know the law and keep good records, you have little to worry about.
Children are best socialized by their parents and other responsible adults. They exercise their social skills by interacting with others under supervision. There is no reason to believe that children must be with others for a certain number of hours a day or per week in order to receive adequate socialization. Every child is different, and some enjoy more social opportunities, while others are stressed by it and need a little more solitude. Kids are people too. 
Homeschooling is not pleasant when the parents aren't in agreement, regardless of the age/grade of the child. It seems to me, at least from the talks I've had with parents who are conflicted, is that if they go ahead and homeschool without really being convinced it's the right thing for their family, every little thing gets blamed on homeschooling. If they can't read fast, or spell well, or write legibly- if they get into a fight or wet the bed or eat a dead June bug- it's because they are at home, and all this would magically go away if the child was in a regular school. 
Not so, Kemosabe. Even if your child is in a traditional school, parents must be involved in the learning process. Education is most successful by any method when both parents are supportive and excited about the experience. The child will read your attitudes and act accordingly.
If you decide to enroll your child, you and/or your wife could volunteer at the school and really be part of the process instead of feeling like you are 'sending her away'- which is how some moms feel, especially with the first child to go to school.
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Susan R
Sunniemom's Survival Guide
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 12:49:24 PM
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Sideways
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I do wonder if it isn't in the best interest of the HSLDA to spread these persecution stories far and wide, not that they are lies, but that they are not as common as some would have you believe. Basically, the more the HSLDA can make people afraid of the big, bad system, the more people will fork over their dollars to be protected by the HSLDA. I believe you have to pay to be members, whether you have a legal problem or not?
_____________________________
Well behaved women rarely make the history books.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 1:02:22 PM
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Sunnymom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
I do wonder if it isn't in the best interest of the HSLDA to spread these persecution stories far and wide, not that they are lies, but that they are not as common as some would have you believe. Basically, the more the HSLDA can make people afraid of the big, bad system, the more people will fork over their dollars to be protected by the HSLDA. I believe you have to pay to be members, whether you have a legal problem or not?
I'm not a member of the HSLDA, and I'm not into fear-mongering, but I think they do provide a service by preparing folks for the possibility of being harassed. It may not happen much, but it happens. No one has stopped watching the news, have they?
One does have to be a member of the HSLDA to receive advice, and lots of folks join to be supportive, and not because they think they will need legal help. They also provide forms and diplomas and other helps for members.
There are other homeschool ... agencies, I suppose, for want of a better word, that will help homeschooling families for a small fee, and some for free. I contacted a local attorney who said he'd help if I ever needed it, but in 15 years of homeschooling in Ohio, I've taken care of any problems myself just by knowing the law.
It is very true, though, that school officials often do not know ANYTHING about the homeschool requirements in their state. I've met more than my fair share of teachers, principals, and district officials who had the wildest ideas about what homeschoolers were required to do.
It also helps if homeschoolers get to know their neighbors and talk to them about what you are doing- it minimizes misunderstandings and speculation.
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Susan R
Sunniemom's Survival Guide
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 1:13:43 PM
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his_chosen
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Sideways--HSLDA is there to educate parents on home schooling laws. When we first started home schooling, the district sent us this huge stack of forms demanding all sorts of information and said they must approve our eduactiaonal materials. They were totally out of line with what was required by law. Only minimal student info is required (name, birthday) and we do not need their approval on educational materials. I will submit all information required by law, but not one bit more!
We started hsing ds2 in 1st grade because he was bored in private school. The following year we brought ds1 home for 3rd grade. Ds3 and ds4 have never been to traditional school. Many have said that it is easier to home school first, then transitional to traditional school.
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You have a choice. You can throw in the towel or you can use it to wipe the sweat off your face.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 2:01:20 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
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quote:
Not so, Kemosabe. Even if your child is in a traditional school, parents must be involved in the learning process. Education is most successful by any method when both parents are supportive and excited about the experience. The child will read your attitudes and act accordingly.
This is excellent insight.
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Jude 24, 25
(My avatar is my daughter's artwork!)
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 3:26:24 PM
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kohls356
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If I were called or chose to home school I wouldn't let what might happen with a school district keep me from doing that. The parents are the ones who need to know the laws in their states. I wouldn't expect every school district to know and understand the home schooling laws of their states since that is not what the public schools are doing. If the district is doing something illegal then it is the parents that need to be informing the schools and proving the error to the district. If they don't change or continue to harrass the parents then they need to take legal action. I believe I live in a pretty home school friendly state as I know many people who do it and I have never heard of anyone having any problems.
I believe in order for home schooling to really work well both parents need to be on same page about it, just like any other major decision that needs to be made when raising your children. I have seen a few families home school where mostly the mother wanted to home school and was told fine but don't ask me to be a part of it. I also knew a family where the father was the one that wanted the kids homeschooled and the wife submitted to her husband but he didn't help out, that is just not a good environment for the family. I think that would be awful stressful to not have your spouse on your side.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 4:58:55 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: enter_address_here
Actually, my daughter is 5, hasn't started kindergarten yet.
My wife and I are contemplating homeschooling her, my wife was homeschooled until High School. There is no question that she will learn more at home, but I'm worried that she might miss a lot of great, or at least constructive, social interaction with other kids
The problem is, Elisa just simply isn't the type to sit quietly and listen to a teacher, or do an assignment for a long time, she is 5 and not used to it.
I want it to be her choice, and she wants to go, but I feel she will change her mind in a couple months, if not weeks.
My wife says, we should just homeschool, and that the school board or something might hassle us once we are on the radar and fully enrolled, is there anything to worry about if we decide to unenroll her in a couple months?
I mean, she is worried they will hound us about curriculum and ask to see workbooks or something, but it will be avoided completely if we simply never enroll her.
Anty thoughts...
We were almost where you are right now...about 7 years ago...when our oldest was going to start school. Wondering which educational "choice" we were going to make for our children.
All I can suggest is to PRAY about it. God will guide you to a decision that will bless you and your daughter. And, after being led by God to make the decision, don't back down because "others" tell you that you're making the "wrong decision" (as my inlaws initially did when we made the decision to have our daughter attend our neighborhood school....though, unfortunately, my father in law, still believes and reads all of the "anti public school" propaganda floating out there)...but, for the most part, they've caught on to the "concept" that just because some crazy school on the "left coast" does something controversial, it's not being done in schools everywhere...and, that each and every school is very unique and different. There are no "cookie cutter" schools out there....at all!
That being said: If we lived where you live (wherever that is), our decision may have been very, very different. We took an honest look at all of our options where we lived, and prayed about it....and, God led us to a decision, and we have been blessed by an extremely positive public school experience....with our children having educational experiences far, far greater than we could have ever provided on our own. Though, as I mentioned, we realize that's not the case everywhere.
Hope this helps.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 5:10:48 PM
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cynthia
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Have you and your wife sat down together and prayed over what the Lord wants regarding the education of your child? That would be my first step.
If you are leaning toward homeschooling, a comprehensive pro-homeschooling book is "Homeschooling: The Right Choice," by Christopher Klica. Here's a link to it at Amazon.com. They have a cheap used copy available.
There isn't much a person can do get a child behind in kindergarten. It's a super easy and fun age to teach. When we began homeschooling, my husband asked me to homeschool. I thought it would be easy enough to start with kindergarten and it was, even with two younger children.
There are several options for schooling now a days. I figure there isn't really a reason for our family to send our children to either a public or private school at this point, so we continue to educate them at home. It works for our family. We all have to do what works for our own family and consider what options are available. In my area, there are lots of options.
In the public school, we can send our children to a brick and mortor school or a cyber school. We can send them part time or full time.
For private school, there are on-line, brick and mortor and either full time or part time.
For homeschooling, we can do it all at home or join co-ops and use various classes. We have taken one child out for music lessons and we have had a teacher come here for other classes. My children have had all sorts of opportunities through our community (like YMCA), church, homeschool group, etc. If my children want to do something, we can figure a way to do it and we can get other people involved as well. For example, my daughers and some of their friends wanted a dance, so they got together and planned it through our homeschool group. They have gone to several dances and been involved in planning two of them. Unless you live in a very rural area, you are likely to find tons of opportunities.
One of the things I like best about homeschooling is that we do it on our schedule. My husband travels regularly for business. There are some hotels that charge the same for one person as they do for a family, so we sometimes travel with him. We are free to do this. This will be our last year homeschooling our eldest. We expect her to enter community college next year. This year, we plan to travel most of the time with my husband. We will load up our books with the rest of our luggage and go where he goes. We can have school in our room, then the kids can play in the pool until dh gets off work. This is one of the big pros of homeschooling.
Another pro of homeschooling is that the parent is able to choose all the curriculum and the style of teaching. That is also a con, since it is a big responsiblity and can be overwhelming at times.
Whatever you decide to do, keep in mind what Sunnymom said some time back in this thread about parental involvement. The biggest indicator of how your child will do acadmecially, socially and (most importantly) spiritually is how involved you are as a parent and what your attitude is in your involvement. Prayerfully seek the Lord and see what His desire is. Clearly I am pro-homeschooling since that is our family lifestyle and we really like it, but God may have a different plan for your family.
_____________________________
Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 10:51:04 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 1931
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From: the bottom of the laundry basket
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quote:
Not so, Kemosabe. Even if your child is in a traditional school, parents must be involved in the learning process. Education is most successful by any method when both parents are supportive and excited about the experience. The child will read your attitudes and act accordingly.
If you decide to enroll your child, you and/or your wife could volunteer at the school and really be part of the process instead of feeling like you are 'sending her away'- which is how some moms feel, especially with the first child to go to school.
Another EXCELLENT post!
My children are doing very well academically, socially and spiritually - Mostly because my husband and I are involved in all stages of their.
If your children are in public school, in my opinion, it is imperative that you are involved in their schools and take the time to get to know your child's teachers. Go to open houses, attend conferences and by all means volunteer!!!!! If you have special talents in art or music or enjoy being active - even special area teachers can use volunteers!! Even working parents! Please take a day off a couple times during the school year and volunteer. It will show your child that their education and their school matters to you! And not just mom's!!! Having involved fathers is just as important!!
Blessings,
Garsy
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"And I usually agree with Garsy, so I'll be quiet now." Stellaluna - July 2010
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Taking child out of school to homeschool - 7/26/2010 11:12:20 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 2275
Joined: 3/23/2010
From: Boo Radley's back yard
Status: offline
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slightly O/T
Garsy is the queen of parent volunteering and involvement, and speaking as a teach myself, I KNOW that school LOVES her!
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Jude 24, 25
(My avatar is my daughter's artwork!)
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