Bible crushes theory of evolution.

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spiritualwatchman -> Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/10/2010 7:04:29 PM)
My simple theory inspired by scripture and the Holy Ghost. Gen1:26,27 mankind had no soul and was created as a pair, they ate meat and herbs. Gen2 adam was given a soul and was friends with the animals and named them...adam was put to sleep and eve was created from adams rib...they ate from the fruit of the garden. Major differences in culture and being. Each day in the creation days was simply a "day" to God...a complete revolution of the entire universe is a day to God in respect to the 7 days of creation... Also the world was left in ruins gen1:2 isaiah said God did not create the earth in that condition. Isa45:18 So only God knows about the time between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2

gralan -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/11/2010 6:23:05 AM)
Hello spiritualwatchman, I'm not sure how your unique understanding of Genesis, which I've never heard of before, crushes the theory of evolution. Have you actually read other theories of how the Genesis account in the Bible counters what evolution teaches? There is a great book by Kurt P. Wise entitled: Faith, Form and Time. I would recommend that as a resource for you in your quest to understand the application of Biblical truth as revealed in Genesis and in other parts of the Bible. I'm glad that you are thinking about how to grasp and apply the truth we have from God's lips to our eyes (so to speak). Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Feel free to contact me at anytime, if you'd like. I enjoy discussing these kinds of things. quote: ORIGINAL: spiritualwatchman My simple theory inspired by scripture and the Holy Ghost. Gen1:26,27 mankind had no soul and was created as a pair, they ate meat and herbs. Gen2 adam was given a soul and was friends with the animals and named them...adam was put to sleep and eve was created from adams rib...they ate from the fruit of the garden. Major differences in culture and being. Each day in the creation days was simply a "day" to God...a complete revolution of the entire universe is a day to God in respect to the 7 days of creation... Also the world was left in ruins gen1:2 isaiah said God did not create the earth in that condition. Isa45:18 So only God knows about the time between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2

jjbird -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/11/2010 11:22:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spiritualwatchman My simple theory inspired by scripture and the Holy Ghost. Gen1:26,27 mankind had no soul and was created as a pair, they ate meat and herbs. Gen2 adam was given a soul and was friends with the animals and named them...adam was put to sleep and eve was created from adams rib...they ate from the fruit of the garden. Major differences in culture and being. Each day in the creation days was simply a "day" to God...a complete revolution of the entire universe is a day to God in respect to the 7 days of creation... Also the world was left in ruins gen1:2 isaiah said God did not create the earth in that condition. Isa45:18 So only God knows about the time between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2 So when a woman gets pregnant the baby just immediately pops out ready to cry and feed? No it evolves for nine months! God used evolution to bring life into the world. God created evolution! Evolution doesn't go against the bible and the bible doesn't go against evolution.

spiritualwatchman -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/11/2010 1:08:28 PM)
Evolution of course exists...whitetail deer are 250 pounds in canada and as small as 65 pounds in southern florida. They have evolved according to enviroment... Mankind evolved 4 seperate ways after the flood and then evolved back together at babel... I am speaking of evolution as in "man did NOT evolve from monkey"...and neither do whole new species come from one God has created...hybreds and changes in size and appearance only. Remember God chose the animals that would go on the ark all others was killed in the flood. The "caveman" is the man in Gen1 we are from adam and eve gen 2. I appreciate any books you recomend but unless God tells me to read them I am bible only...I have another theory...Jesus continually corrected the pharasees and sadducees and was quite clear...pharasee(religion))sadducee(philosophy)...we can do nothing and know nothing outside of Christ...so my religion and philosophy ends at what God tells me...I am open to opinions and am used to rejection, but I will DIE before I deny my Lord Jesus. I would love to discuss all with anyone, but I don't like secret things, all should be done in the open...unless it is a personal thing, that's different... Feel free to pm me if you are uncomfortable though, I resect every individuals personal feelings... Much Love, Brian

tacitus -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/12/2010 1:27:30 AM)
quote: I am open to opinions and am used to rejection, but I will DIE before I deny my Lord Jesus. Well, I'm sure it won't have to come to that around here, anyway. [:D]

spiritualwatchman -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/12/2010 2:08:14 AM)
I'm not so sure of that... The more I read around these forums and the way I have been treated up to this point (a deleted thread with no warning nor a pm telling me why)... I am pretty sure if we lived during the witch trials yall would have tied me to a rock and casted me off the dock...lol :)

caur -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/12/2010 2:05:44 PM)
Of course the Bible crushes the "theory of evolution". So does the theory of evolution. So does nature itself. Evolutionary theory is illogical based solely on its own argument. If it were true, then something besides a bird can come from a bird or the eye can change into another organ. It really does defeat itself.

tacitus -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/12/2010 3:33:49 PM)
quote: If it were true, then something besides a bird can come from a bird or the eye can change into another organ. Funny, I don't recall learning either of those things in biology class. Must have been asleep during that lesson.

DanJames -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/13/2010 3:04:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spiritualwatchman My simple theory inspired by scripture and the Holy Ghost. Gen1:26,27 mankind had no soul and was created as a pair, they ate meat and herbs. Gen2 adam was given a soul and was friends with the animals and named them...adam was put to sleep and eve was created from adams rib...they ate from the fruit of the garden. Major differences in culture and being. Each day in the creation days was simply a "day" to God...a complete revolution of the entire universe is a day to God in respect to the 7 days of creation... Also the world was left in ruins gen1:2 isaiah said God did not create the earth in that condition. Isa45:18 So only God knows about the time between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2 I think that maybe we should just let the bible say what it means. Man was created from the dirt and became a living being as a result of God breathing the breath of life into his nostrils. This, the naming of the animals, and the creation of the woman from the man's rib, happened on calendar day six. quote: ORIGINAL: caur Of course the Bible crushes the "theory of evolution". So does the theory of evolution. So does nature itself. Evolutionary theory is illogical based solely on its own argument. If it were true, then something besides a bird can come from a bird or the eye can change into another organ. It really does defeat itself. We can glean from the bible and from scientific research that from the creation til now, genetics has been behaving as we are discovering in the laboratory. This idea that such and such a gene or such and such an organ "arose" via such and such a process is all hypothesis. But we have no reason to believe that the results that are being received in the lab are anything other than observation of reality.

Dante_Alighieri -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/13/2010 4:32:35 PM)
quote: If it were true, then something besides a bird can come from a bird or the eye can change into another organ. It really does defeat itself. If that were to occur, it would in fact disprove evolution. I'm afraid you're ignorant as to what the theory of evolution is if you believe this to accurately represent the ideas of evolution. Dante

spiritualwatchman -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 5:27:30 AM)
DanJames, Thank you for your opinion. Let's look at psalm 19:1 ;and the firmament showeth his handiwork...put that on the shelf for a second... You see I believe the bible is without error... Get your bible... Read gen 1 then gen 2...in gen 1 the Lord created the animals first then "mankind" but in gen 2 He created adam then the animals then eve...a huge contradiction... Now "if" a creation day is a "universal day" meaning a complete revolution of the entire universe that would mean a lot of years for each day...let's use 1million years per day for example only (if someone knows exact formula please let me know)... Let's start at day 5 gen1:20 say all the water creatures and the flying creatures and the moving creatures...example of 1milyrs later...now day 6 gen1:24 cattle and creeping things of the field and the meat eating caveman...example of 1milyrs later the 7thday of rest is another revolution of the universe...then God made the garden of eden... Look at gen3:21 this is were the Lord makes coats of skins for adam and eve...adam and eve had never had exercised dominion over the animals because Adam and Eve didn't even know of their purpose outside of friendship...remember gen2:18 said God made the animals so adam would not be lonely...not because he was hungry or needed to exercise dominion over them... Ok back to psalm 19:1...to me this verse means the earth itself will testify inside Gods word...or nature is a reminder of Gods activity...either way same thing... Look at evidence of archeology then compare with gen 1 and gen 2 with my theory in mind, also if I knew the rough amount of time it takes the universe to fully revolve I would have a more solid way to test my theory with science. Look forward to other opinions...

DanJames -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 2:20:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spiritualwatchman DanJames, Thank you for your opinion. Let's look at psalm 19:1 ;and the firmament showeth his handiwork...put that on the shelf for a second... You see I believe the bible is without error... Get your bible... Read gen 1 then gen 2...in gen 1 the Lord created the animals first then "mankind" but in gen 2 He created adam then the animals then eve...a huge contradiction... Well, leave your bible open because you're going to need it for this discussion. God made all mankind by one man, Adam (Acts 17:26), and one woman (Genesis 3:20). And the account in Genesis 2 does not have to be a contradiction. It looks to me that God created one more animal, from the ground only (not from the water also as in day 5), from each kind, all at once, to bring to Adam to name. The problems introduced by reading the creation event in the way you've suggested create the real contradictions. quote: Now "if" a creation day is a "universal day" meaning a complete revolution of the entire universe that would mean a lot of years for each day...let's use 1million years per day for example only (if someone knows exact formula please let me know)... If we're keeping all the naturalistic assumptions, I don't think that the universe has made a complete revolution in the entire history of the universe, no matter how much time you give it. The nearest big galaxy to our own is the Andromeda galaxy, and it's two million light-years away. Rotating around the earth, its path would have a diameter of 4 million light years. It's path would be a little over 12 million light years. Now apply that to the distance of the farthest ones, 10 to 12 billion light years away! Their paths would be astronomical, and even at the speed of light they would never make it around our earth within the lifetime of the universe, no matter how long you suppose it's been in existence. quote: Let's start at day 5 gen1:20 say all the water creatures and the flying creatures and the moving creatures...example of 1milyrs later...now day 6 gen1:24 cattle and creeping things of the field and the meat eating caveman...example of 1milyrs later the 7thday of rest is another revolution of the universe...then God made the garden of eden... You're forgetting the fact that all the plants, to include the seeding ones (angiosperms) were created a day before the sun, moon, and stars. I'm telling you, there's just no possible way to shoe-horn the naturalistic history of the universe into the bible's narrative. quote: Look at gen3:21 this is were the Lord makes coats of skins for adam and eve...adam and eve had never had exercised dominion over the animals because Adam and Eve didn't even know of their purpose outside of friendship...remember gen2:18 said God made the animals so adam would not be lonely...not because he was hungry or needed to exercise dominion over them... Ok back to psalm 19:1...to me this verse means the earth itself will testify inside Gods word...or nature is a reminder of Gods activity...either way same thing... Look at evidence of archeology then compare with gen 1 and gen 2 with my theory in mind, also if I knew the rough amount of time it takes the universe to fully revolve I would have a more solid way to test my theory with science. Look forward to other opinions...

benelchi -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 2:39:16 PM)
quote: Gen1:26,27 mankind had no soul and was created as a pair, they ate meat and herbs. The problem with this theory is that Genesis 1 describes man as being created in the images and likeness of God. It was not speaking of Man's physical appearance because God is a spirit and omnipresent and without soul Man could not be said to be created in the image of God. Additional, it creates further theological difficulties when one tries to separate Adam and Eve from the creation account given in Genesis 1 i.e. if Adam and Eve were only mentioned in Genesis 2 then we have no reason to believe (from Scripture) that they were created in God's image and by extension that we, as Adam's decedents were created in the image of God.

spiritualwatchman -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 4:05:56 PM)
Benelchi, Thank you for your opinion. I always thought like you do, nothing wrong with that...see to truly be in Gods image and likeness is to be be absent of free-will, I know you can say that's why they fell to begin with but hear me out, I don't intend to force my view on anyone, but as I said I believe this way myself, just sharing a possibility... see if God made "us" in the image and likeness of the GODHEAD(God said "our" image)then that would mean of an impossibility to commit sin... See just like the songbirds that can not sin because they have no soul was like the "caveman" that could not sin or have the possibility of sin...just like God's image and likeness...they can not sin... A common day analogy...the mormans have Gods image but not likeness...I myself have Gods "likeness" but not His image(people will not see God in me until He activates His likeness in me)...understand my point of view? DanJames, You think small and from earth, think large and from Gods view... God is eternal always has been...to say that the universe has not rolled around under his feet is a thought that limits Gods power, longsuffering, and grace.. 2tim.3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and good for teaching... If I can find the actual formula for the revolution of the universe I do believe it will match the discoverys made by science when dealing with the study of the firmament and also with evolution in mind... Thanks again, Look forward to future fellowship. With Love, Brian

drmark -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 6:40:07 PM)
quote: Evolution doesn't go against the bible and the bible doesn't go against evolution. Please cite just one passage of Scripture that even remotely suggests God used evolutionary mechanisms to produce earth's biodiversity, jj. Let me know when you're ready for the 50+ passages that indicate divine creation...[8\|]

DanJames -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 7:02:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spiritualwatchman DanJames, You think small and from earth, think large and from Gods view... God is eternal always has been...to say that the universe has not rolled around under his feet is a thought that limits Gods power, longsuffering, and grace.. 2tim.3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and good for teaching... If I can find the actual formula for the revolution of the universe I do believe it will match the discoverys made by science when dealing with the study of the firmament and also with evolution in mind... Thanks again, Look forward to future fellowship. With Love, Brian That's a very puzzling statement. Are you suggesting that God has been spinning matter through the universe faster than the speed of light? Are you suggesting that believing that seeding plants were created a million years before the sun, moon, and stars is to "think large and from God's view"? What's wrong with just letting the Bible mean what it says?

spiritualwatchman -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 9:25:11 PM)
DanJames, I say the same thing to you. Why not let it mean exactly what it says?...read again slower with scientific firmament evidence beside your bible... The firmament talks for God too... psalm 19:1 Thanks, Brian

drmark -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/14/2010 10:37:06 PM)
quote: Why not let it mean exactly what it says?...read again slower with scientific firmament evidence beside your bible... The firmament talks for God too... psalm 19:1 Sorry, Brian, but no scientific evidence occurs in a vacuum. Anyone who uses observational evidence obtained from examining the firmament (BTW, what do you think that word refers to?) must derive conclusions influenced by faith-based assumptions. For instance, the universe is expanding but how do we know its rate of expansion over thousands or billions of years? quote: think large and from Gods view... Anyone who is foolish enough to even suggest that we can understand celestial mechanics from "God's view" is setting themself up for a nice rebuke from God, a la Job 38! Genesis and other Bible passages that specifically address origins issues are expressly written from the human perspective so that we can indeed have some reasonable comprehension with our finite minds. Plants were created on earth one evening/morning cycle before the sun was created in space according to Genesis 1. The text is clear and definite!

spiritualwatchman -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/15/2010 12:51:18 AM)
Drmark, Thank you for calling me a fool for having an inspired idea...I think I may receive a small blessing for that...maybe I will get an ice-cream at church this wed...lol...just joking...I thank you for your honest educated opinion... Honestly I am confused at your post...what do you mean by "vacuum" I don't understand... The firmament to me is the earths layers and fossils of plants and animals that existed long ago that can be seen when digging in the earth...how old are we the humans as a race? Most people say about 10000 years roughly...I have held in my hands crude tools made of flint and other soft stones that was older than that...where did they come from? We have skeletons of humanoids and animals way older than any man...where do they fit in? We have evidence that garden vegatables didn't exist till a long, long time after other now extinct plants...hmmm how's that? Did God leave us without the knowledge needed to combat atheism at every angle? Is our sword dull? God forbid according to scripture... 2tim3:17 So that the man of God may be complete... read it like its written. With Love, Brian

drmark -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/15/2010 12:35:03 PM)
quote: Thank you for calling me a fool for having an inspired idea...I think I may receive a small blessing for that...maybe I will get an ice-cream at church this wed...lol...just joking...I thank you for your honest educated opinion... I did not call you a fool, Brian, rather I called the idea that we can understand divine physics a "foolish" one. I have often espoused "foolish" ideas on these S&O Forums, but I don't consider myself to be a fool. quote: Honestly I am confused at your post...what do you mean by "vacuum" I don't understand... Evidence cannot be interpreted to draw conclusions without applying certain faith-based assumptions. My faith-based assumptions are that Genesis is the historically accurate narrative account of origins and God knows what He is talking about better than human scientists. Atheists wrongly believe that science exists in a "vacuum" which is unaffected by one's worldview or underlying faith-based assumptions. quote: The firmament to me is the earths layers and fossils of plants and animals that existed long ago that can be seen when digging in the earth Almost all Bible scholars identify the "firmament" in the original Hebrew to refer to the atmosphere, not the earth's layers. Please google "definition firmament bible" for more details if you wish. quote: I have held in my hands crude tools made of flint and other soft stones that was older than that...where did they come from? Exactly how do you know that they were older than that, Brian?

ta_mosquito -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/15/2010 12:55:23 PM)
So let me get this straight: Man was created in God's image in Genesis 1, and he was basically a brute beast, incapable of discerning good from evil (sinning). He had no soul. God scrapped all that somehow, and remade man in Genesis 2, NOT in His image. So man is now capable of sinning. So why was the Genesis 1 man "made in God's image" when he was like the animals (an animal himself), but the animals WEREN'T made in God's image? What was the difference between the "cave man" of Genesis 1 and the animals, such that man was said to be made in God's image, but the animals weren't? --- As for the Genesis 2 "contradiction"... The NIV renders it thus: 19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them This does NOT say that God formed the animals at that point, after Adam. It says he HAD FORMED them, which means they were already formed, with a continual effect. Is anyone here a Hebrew scholar that can see what the verb tense is in the Hebrew?

benelchi -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/15/2010 1:21:30 PM)
quote: The NIV renders it thus: 19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them This does NOT say that God formed the animals at that point, after Adam. It says he HAD FORMED them, which means they were already formed, with a continual effect. Is anyone here a Hebrew scholar that can see what the verb tense is in the Hebrew? Verb tenses in Hebrew are extremely difficult and context is always required to truly determine the translation of the the tense of a verb. In Hebrew there is only one perfect tense and one imperfect tense, and context determines it's interpretation. To complicate things further, sometimes perfects carry an imperfect sense and imperfects carry a perfect sense, for example in Hosea 1:10 the phrase that is usually translated as "In the place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' it will be said to them, 'You are sons of the living God'" both instances of the verb 'to say' are imperfect. Additionally, there are grammar issues that add interesting nuances as well i.e. a verb that is prefixed with the conjunction 'and' (called a vav-conversive) changes tense from perfect to imperfect, or imperfect to perfect as it does in this verse in Gen. 2. All that to say that technically either translation is of this Hebrew verb is valid; however, the context of the passage supports the translation offered by the NIV. As you pointed out, the idea that a "man like animal" was somehow created in the image of God, but a man with a soul is not is not an idea that is supportable by the text of Genesis. Clearly this is not an interpretation of Scripture that has any historical support at all.

benelchi -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/15/2010 1:36:20 PM)
quote: The firmament to me is the earths layers and fossils of plants and animals that existed long ago that can be seen when digging in the earth...how old are we the humans as a race? However, what the firmament is 'to you' really isn't important. No Hebrew reader would read 'רקיע'/firmament and think "earth layers!" Here are some verses that demonstrate the problems with this view: Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse (רקיע) of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse (רקיע) of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. God placed them in the expanse (רקיע) of the heavens to give light on the earth, (Gen�1:14-17�NASB) Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse (רקיע) of the heavens." (Gen�1:20�NASB) For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse (רקיע) is declaring the work of His hands. (Psa�19:1�NASB)

spiritualwatchman -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/15/2010 2:17:57 PM)
I have thought the same thoughts in the past... I study with up to more than 20 versions of the english bible...the niv is not one of them...no attack I just don't like it...I do kinda like the (h)csb though. I find myself going back to KJV(text only)not the man-made notes that comes with so many "study" bibles "Any christian bible is better than no bible." I also do word studies searching every possible root word possibility. In light of all this I could still not see...and God was still tuggin me into this area of study... The garden of eden till now currently is still the 8th day. We are in the 8th universal day that has occured since the "fall of satan" Adam was created on the 8th day the farm animals we know and love to eat, 8thday, the vegatables we eat 8th day. God is infinate,eternal,all-knowing...he set this plan up because He knew what was going to happen...He knew Adam and Eve was going to sin...He needed to ensure a perfect plan that would properly represent His longsuffering character, His "creative" ability...etc. Maybe he was allowing the fallen angels a space of "7" days to repent, I don't like that idea but hey He is righteous enough to forgive us and to give us space to repent... Also if the caveman had had a soul the fallen angels could have possessd the soul...that would have changed the whole plan... God knows his models...if the earth had not had the caveman to complete the self-reliance of nature we would not had fit in to the plan so easily... Kinda like john the baptist had to go away to let Jesus grow...so the caveman had to go away so we could grow...basicly God placed the caveman to ensure that our paths would be straight...everything was ready for the fall of "man" Also like john and Jesus, their two paths crossed...john didn't live long after Jesus was baptized just like the cavemen did not live long after God closed the gate of noah's ark. ..of course many cavemen was surely killed by humans before that, just like every other animal that has ever existed. Look forward to more opinions. With Love, Brian

drmark -> RE: Bible crushes theory of evolution. (3/15/2010 2:22:14 PM)
quote: Look forward to more opinions. Frankly, Brian, I'm not interested in "opinions"! The authoritative, inerrant Word of God clearly relates the creation of Adam and Eve on day 6. Have a nice day and God bless!

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