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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 4/30/2010 3:46:34 PM
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rlj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ik3900
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
If this corporal makes it back does anyone from across the pond know if this could get him a Victoria's Cross?
The VC is awarded for:
... most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy.
Although Corporal Neathway's dedication and bravery are remarkable, I'm not sure that the final element - "in the presence of the enemy" - is satisfied. Although it may well be on his next encounter with "Terry".
The VC may also be the hardest award of its kind to get.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/7/2010 6:02:42 PM
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buckifn
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7 more of our troops died today. It's so hard to ignore the numbers when some of the people there are your own family members.
It's been said several times recently that the number of deaths are going to be going up in the next month or two.
It almost seems like so many never give it a second thought until another group of our men/women get killed.
I hope we are all praying for them, and for their families.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/7/2010 6:09:34 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
7 more of our troops died today. It's so hard to ignore the numbers when some of the people there are your own family members.
It's been said several times recently that the number of deaths are going to be going up in the next month or two.
It almost seems like so many never give it a second thought until another group of our men/women get killed.
I hope we are all praying for them, and for their families.
Oh, yeah. Interesting how little coverage (and how infrequent the posting) about the military actions. Karzai is firing his US-friendly hig-level security people and making more overtures to the Taliban.
_____________________________
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/7/2010 8:42:55 PM
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wing2000
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quote:
Karzai is firing his US-friendly hig-level security people
...with what?
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/8/2010 2:32:16 PM
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rcjames
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Obama's war does not seem to be going very well.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/8/2010 3:45:14 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Obama's war does not seem to be going very well.
Thanks
RC
We lost our way in 2003.
_____________________________
Sarah Palin: one letter away from being a mormon.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/8/2010 3:58:17 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
We lost our way in 2003.
Interesting, so you would not have gone after Al Queda and its sanctuary?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/8/2010 4:09:51 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
We lost our way in 2003.
Interesting, so you would not have gone after Al Queda and its sanctuary?
Thanks
RC
Not sure what you're referencing, but Afghanistan was the sanctuary (along with our "ally", Pakistan). The US diverted troops and equipment away from there to a better PR invasion.
_____________________________
Sarah Palin: one letter away from being a mormon.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 9:56:07 AM
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wing2000
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quote:
The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said Thursday that major parts of the military operation to secure Kandahar, the birthplace of the Taliban movement, would be pushed back because it was taking longer than expected to win local support.
....McChrystal said it was taking longer than anticipated to gain the blessing of local tribal leaders -- and Kandaharis in general -- for the operation. He also said commanders needed more time to ensure that Afghan government could step in after the fighting stops and provide effective public services, something that has been lacking in Kandahar for years.
"When you go to protect people, the people have to want you to protect them," McChrystal told reporters. "It's a deliberate process. It takes time to convince people."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/10/AR2010061000781.html
A military commander who recognizes that success relies just as much on local support and effective goverance as military power.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 10:34:53 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
A military commander who recognizes that success relies just as much on local support and effective goverance as military power.
Wow, I guess if we had understood and applied that in WW!! we would still be fighting it.
We started fighting Politically correct wars with Korea, and have not had a decisive victory since.
And Obama Inc. is turning this one into a joke as far as victory is concerned. I do feel very sorry for our soldiers who are fighting, but our Commander in Cheif will refuse to let them win.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 10:38:38 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1233
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
A military commander who recognizes that success relies just as much on local support and effective goverance as military power.
Wow, I guess if we had understood and applied that in WW!! we would still be fighting it.
We started fighting Politically correct wars with Korea, and have not had a decisive victory since.
And Obama Inc. is turning this one into a joke as far as victory is concerned. I do feel very sorry for our soldiers who are fighting, but our Commander in Cheif will refuse to let them win.
Thanks
RC
...yea RC. Like Afghanistan is anything like WWII.
I think we already know your approach.
Wipe out the country and "let the cream rise to the top"
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 11:20:00 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3440
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
A military commander who recognizes that success relies just as much on local support and effective goverance as military power.
Wow, I guess if we had understood and applied that in WW!! we would still be fighting it.
We started fighting Politically correct wars with Korea, and have not had a decisive victory since.
And Obama Inc. is turning this one into a joke as far as victory is concerned. I do feel very sorry for our soldiers who are fighting, but our Commander in Cheif will refuse to let them win.
Thanks
RC
...yea RC. Like Afghanistan is anything like WWII.
I think we already know your approach.
Wipe out the country and "let the cream rise to the top"
The approach would be to carpet bomb them which really did nothing in WW 2 except increase the stranglehold of Goebbels' propaganda machine on the German people and incense the Japanese to die to the last to defend their Emperor's honor.
Anything more than a casual look at our methods in WW 2 would point out it wasn't until Ike changed the schwerpunkt of the bombing campaign to cities and the punishment of civilians to the roads, bridges, railroads and airports of the Reich did the strategic bombing campaign become truly strategic. Reich production peaked in August and September of 1944 it was their inability to move any of it that forced the issue.
Anyway what are we going to bomb in Afghanistan? After Kabul there isn't much. Funny how the Afghan people had no problem with the "total war" of the commies.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 11:24:26 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...yea RC. Like Afghanistan is anything like WWII.
I think we already know your approach.
Wipe out the country and "let the cream rise to the top"
To win a war, you destroy and kill the enemy.
You destroy anyone and anything that is giving aid, protection, and/or support to the enemy.
When you take ground from the enemy, you hold that ground and take more ground.
Simple and effective.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 11:27:45 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Anyway what are we going to bomb in Afghanistan? After Kabul there isn't much. Funny how the Afghan people had no problem with the "total war" of the commies.
Not to forget we were supporting Afghanistan against the Ruskies.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 11:28:06 AM
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rlj
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quote:
You destroy anyone and anything that is giving aid, protection, and/or support to the enemy.
The problem is when you lose you face war crimes trials and can get put to death. (See Nuremberg Trials specifically those commanders on the Eastern Front)
quote:
When you take ground from the enemy, you hold that ground and take more ground.
So why didn't we send about a million troops over in the first place to do that? I am aware though that we both probably thought the US never took that war seriously for too many years.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 11:29:18 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3440
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Anyway what are we going to bomb in Afghanistan? After Kabul there isn't much. Funny how the Afghan people had no problem with the "total war" of the commies.
Not to forget we were supporting Afghanistan against the Ruskies.
Thanks
RC
Conversely the Afghans are getting support from the people's of the surrounding regions. Even the previous administration and its supporters stated one of the reasons for the war was to attract foreign terrorists so they wouldn't attack us in the US.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 11:36:13 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
The approach would be to carpet bomb them which really did nothing in WW 2 except increase the stranglehold of Goebbels' propaganda machine on the German people and incense the Japanese to die to the last to defend their Emperor's honor.
Please try not to rewrite history.
Germany surrendered 2 monts after the Dresden fire bombing and the beginning of the intense carpet bombing.
Japan surrnedered 6 days after we dropped Big Boy on them.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 11:37:50 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Conversely the Afghans are getting support from the people's of the surrounding regions.
Which is why I said to kill and destroy anyone anywere that is giving aid, support, and/or protection to the enemy.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 12:19:50 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
The approach would be to carpet bomb them which really did nothing in WW 2 except increase the stranglehold of Goebbels' propaganda machine on the German people and incense the Japanese to die to the last to defend their Emperor's honor.
Please try not to rewrite history.
Germany surrendered 2 monts after the Dresden fire bombing and the beginning of the intense carpet bombing.
Japan surrnedered 6 days after we dropped Big Boy on them.
Thanks
RC
Half of Europe and most of Asia switched from one form of brutal government to another thanks to WWII. Eastern Europe didn't get "liberated" until forty years later. "We" stopped the "war of liberation" for practical political reasons. Nothing is different now, just a change in PR. Most Americans still believe the US won WWII single handedly and that nobody knew what the Ruskies had in mind.
_____________________________
Sarah Palin: one letter away from being a mormon.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 12:28:58 PM
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rcjames
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My point is that if Iran is giving/selling arms to Al Queda/Taliban then we should bomb the staging areas for this smuggling.
The same with Pakisatan, they offer aid, then where ever the enemy is we should go after them, and not with an occasional drone attack, but with the power and might of the U.S. Military.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 2:40:27 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3440
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Please try not to rewrite history.
Germany surrendered 2 monts after the Dresden fire bombing and the beginning of the intense carpet bombing.
RC, Dresden had nothing to do with the surrender of Germany. It is believed the Russians pumped more tonnage of artillery into Berlin alone then the all of the strategic bombers dropped over Germany combined that didn't make them surrender either. The bombing of Hamburg during operation Gomorrah in 1943 resulted in more than double the civilians killed. It was did wonders for Goebbels "Are we the German people going to surrender to those merciless savages who blah blah blah?"
quote:
Japan surrnedered 6 days after we dropped Big Boy on them.
That is a nuke which is hardly what carpet bombing is. If you wish to nuke that is fine but it does change the conversation a little bit.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 2:41:56 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3440
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
My point is that if Iran is giving/selling arms to Al Queda/Taliban then we should bomb the staging areas for this smuggling.
The same with Pakisatan, they offer aid, then where ever the enemy is we should go after them, and not with an occasional drone attack, but with the power and might of the U.S. Military.
Thanks
RC
The sticky point is if you attack Pakistan directly you've essentially shut down one of our biggest supply routes to Afghanistan.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 6/10/2010 3:56:05 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7661
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
The sticky point is if you attack Pakistan directly you've essentially shut down one of our biggest supply routes to Afghanistan.
Well are we not using drones in parts of Pakistan at the present, or is that just more posturing by Obama Inc.
We should follow and kill the enemy where ever they go, and kill and destroy any who aid and abet the enemy.
This is supposed to be war.
Wars are supposed to be fought to win.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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