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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 2/26/2010 3:35:44 PM
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rlj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TrojanHusker
Please show me where soldiers are reading Miranda.
Captured Taliban are considered terrorist and are turned over to the FBI and CIA on the ground, then are given back to the locals.
Obama considers all terrorism as a crime and not as an enemy combatant.
Thanks
RC
I thought that was decided by the SCOTUS in Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld when any trial of any detainee had to fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the third article of the Geneva Convention.
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 2/26/2010 4:32:01 PM
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TrojanHusker
Posts: 277
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TrojanHusker
Please show me where soldiers are reading Miranda.
Captured Taliban are considered terrorist and are turned over to the FBI and CIA on the ground, then are given back to the locals.
Obama considers all terrorism as a crime and not as an enemy combatant
So, not U.S. soldiers as you claimed.
Also, in your link, it says "..... Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan"
Not all captured terrorists as you claim.
Also, there is no mention in your link about "giving them back to the locals".
Your link references a LA Times article, in which it says -
quote:
The approach effectively reverses a mainstay of the Bush administration's war on terrorism, in which global counter-terrorism was treated primarily as an intelligence and military problem, not a law enforcement one. That policy led to the establishment of the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; harsh interrogations; and detentions without trials.
The harsh interrogations provided such bad information that U.S. agents spent years chasing false leads around the world, former FBI agent Ali Soufan testified before Congress two weeks ago. "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in our efforts against Al Qaeda."
The "global justice" initiative starts out with the premise that virtually all suspects will end up in a U.S. or foreign court of law
Do you consider trying them in a Afghani court "giving them back to the locals"?
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 2/26/2010 4:38:58 PM
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GodandGuns
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seems it has to be done now because of the govt we have in office now that puts the life of people out to kill americans ahead of americans
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FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
The Medic, the unsung hero on every battlefield. It is impossible to imagine the mental/emotional trauma inside a Medic, and there is no triage for that.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 2/26/2010 4:40:03 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TrojanHusker
Do you consider trying them in a Afghani court "giving them back to the locals"?
Some go to court, most do not and are released; it is up to the tribal elders.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 2/26/2010 4:49:30 PM
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TrojanHusker
Posts: 277
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TrojanHusker
Do you consider trying them in a Afghani court "giving them back to the locals"?
Some go to court, most do not and are released; it is up to the tribal elders.
I apologize for seeming obtuse, but that is information I haven't seen on any news source.
Would you please have a link I could read about this? They don't mention this in your previous link or the LA Times link.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 2/26/2010 5:02:17 PM
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GodandGuns
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you dont need a link. the sheiks there handle it their way. where you read eye for an eye is literally taken there
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
The Medic, the unsung hero on every battlefield. It is impossible to imagine the mental/emotional trauma inside a Medic, and there is no triage for that.
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 2/28/2010 1:59:52 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3593
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This is a story about one very determined Briton:
quote:
TOM NEATHWAY's last tour of duty in Kajaki was cut short by a blast that felt, he said, like "being hit by a hard rugby tackle".
Now the paratrooper is well on the way to achieving his ambition — overcoming the loss of three limbs from the Taliban booby trap and going back to his sniper's post in the hills overlooking Kajaki in northern Helmand.
Neathway, a corporal in 2 Battalion the Parachute Regiment, lost an arm in the blast and both his legs were later amputated above the knee. If he succeeds in his ambition, he will become the most severely injured soldier to have returned to the fight.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7044125.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 3/1/2010 10:16:48 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
This is a story about one very determined Briton:
quote:
TOM NEATHWAY's last tour of duty in Kajaki was cut short by a blast that felt, he said, like "being hit by a hard rugby tackle".
Now the paratrooper is well on the way to achieving his ambition — overcoming the loss of three limbs from the Taliban booby trap and going back to his sniper's post in the hills overlooking Kajaki in northern Helmand.
Neathway, a corporal in 2 Battalion the Parachute Regiment, lost an arm in the blast and both his legs were later amputated above the knee. If he succeeds in his ambition, he will become the most severely injured soldier to have returned to the fight.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7044125.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093
Great story, and he will be a sniper with a vengance.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 3/1/2010 1:37:35 PM
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rlj
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If this corporal makes it back does anyone from across the pond know if this could get him a Victoria's Cross?
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 3/2/2010 4:48:14 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3593
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It looks like the Afghan units that fought in the Marjah offensive did better than expected. Those who were trained thoroughly seem to have done pretty good:
quote:
Reporting from Marja, Afghanistan - The Afghan troops who supported the U.S. Marines in the battle to end Taliban control of this town in Helmand province showed marked improvement over last summer's performance in a similar fight but still need much more training, Marine commanders say.
Brig. Gen. Larry Nicholson, the top Marine here, said that overall the Afghan battalions exceeded his expectations. Nicholson said he would give some Afghan units an A-minus or B-plus but that others, particularly those with soldiers fresh from basic training, would get a C-minus or D.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-afghan-marja1-2010mar01,0,1111925.story
Maybe they really can pull this off.
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: World Vision - 3/12/2010 4:31:59 AM
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dangreg
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Christian aid groups like World Vision have the problem of being primarily motivated by the desire to proseletyze, however much they deny this. The 3 monotheistic religions each believe that 1. God speaks to them, not to others 2. God sent His only Son/Prophet to them, not to others and 3. God gave His teachings in His Holy Book to them, not to others. One MUST accept these 3 beliefs to be either a Christian, Jew or Muslim. The ultimate aim of all Christian incursions into non-Christian cultures has to be to convert. This is the raison d'etre for any monotheistic faith. Denying this fundamental purpose of monotheism is to deny monotheism itself. Converting infidels or heathens to the true path is one of its intrinsic purposes for being. Thus, its history of missionary work reveals attempts to manipulate, entice, purchase and even coerce indigenous peoples to abandon their traditions and accept Christ. Once a family member converts, he/she turns against the family as devil worshippers. This is a form of terrorism. The peace and harmony of the family is destroyed. Entire communities and cultures have suffered this invasion. The Catholic Church (Vatican) apologized a few years ago for centuries of kidnapping children from parents in Third World countries. Christian attempts to convert have included offers of scholarships, gifts of food, money, and jobs to people willing to do anything to give their child a chance in America. Missionaries practice subtle forms of undermining an indigenous person's traditional spiritual beliefs, such as asking to place an image of Christ or the Virgin Mary on the home altar. Polite and simple people usually agree. When the family soon after receives a "miracle" in the form of a gift or money, etc., the missionary makes certain the family knows that it was their accepting of Christ or Mary on to their home altar that brought them the good fortune. The miracle comes from the missionary, of course, but the family doesn't know that. The hungry, poor and uneducated are easy targets. Their desperation makes them willing to deny their family traditions just to eat or better their lives. In India, hundreds of low caste Hindus periodically re-convert back to Hinduism en masse when they understand what conversion to Christianity means - the denial of all the traditional religious stories and modes of worship they held dear. I once interviewed a Christian woman who had masqueraded in the ochre robes and the rudraksha beads of the highly-respected Hindu sannyasin (lifetime renunciate)in India in order to enter homes and introduce the unsuspecting family, in awe that such a great person would even visit them, to Christ. This is the same thing as if a Muslim were to disquise himself as a Christian minister and enter Christian homes in the very poor parts of a Christian neighborhood to turn the family toward the Prophet and the Koran.
[Edited by Admin for length and for spamming the board with the same or similar message. Please do not use our Forum as a means to publish your blog or article. Thanks!]
< Message edited by Fritzpw_Admin -- 3/12/2010 3:19:39 PM >
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RE: World Vision - 3/12/2010 9:13:11 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 8180
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dangreg
Such a leader will sweep away all creeds of division, exclusion and the lust for victory.
And which leader will that be , the 12th Iman?
quote:
Immense relief will fill the hearts of all, and former enemies will tearfully embrace and sit down together in camaraderie and good will. The youth will cheer the older generation because they finally "got it." And off they will go to mingle their various colors, languages, music, dance and song in an exhuberant celebration of a new world that is theirs to create as they wish, free from all dogmas and creeds.
Brothers and sisters of our human family, will you add your thoughts to this hopeful vision?
Only when Christ returns and all the non=believers have been dispatched will this take place.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: World Vision - 3/17/2010 9:48:50 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/14/2005
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I am glad to see that this rule was changed:
quote:
Washington (CNN) -- A controversial policy that gives U.S. forces in Afghanistan four days to question detainees is being changed to give soldiers more time to interrogate the captives, Gen. David Petraeus said Tuesday.
Petraeus told the Senate Armed Services Committee that American troops will now be able to hold detainees for up to 14 days before either releasing them or turning them over to the Afghan government. In some cases, longer detention will be an option, he said.
Currently, U.S. troops have 96 hours to question people picked up in the field before they must either release them or hand them over to Afghan authorities. The rule is designed to give the Afghan government control over detainees and avoid abuses.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/03/17/afghanistan.nato.detainees/index.html?hpt=T2
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: World Vision - 3/26/2010 1:33:31 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3593
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quote:
ORIGINAL: djv1255
President Obama orders withdrawal from Afghanistan.........of fast food. 
President Obama has begun withdrawing fast food restaurants from the battlefield in Afghanistan, reports AOL News. Major fast food outlets like Orange Julius, Burger King, Pizza Hut, and Dairy Queen will be shut down in U.S. bases in the country in preparation for the troop surge. Nonessential luxuries are being cleared to refocus resources on combat operations and forward bases. The BBC noted that General Stanley McChrystal, the commander of U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan, "expressed concern that burger bars, pizza restaurants and other stores... served as a distraction to the military mission."
I wonder why people around here don't care much about the truth. For starters, General McChrystal isn't the POTUS nor is he the TOTUS. This is from that liberal rag "The Air Force Times":
quote:
Most Army and Air Force Exchange Service concessions serving U.S. troops in Afghanistan will be closed within 90 days under an order issued Feb. 5 by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in that war zone.
McChrystal’s “fragmentary order,” known as a FRAGO, follows a review of morale, welfare and recreation activities in Afghanistan during which base and unit commanders completed a 60-day assessment and submitted impact statements and recommendations for closure or relocation of AAFES facilities.
“MWR programs across the theater should be limited in scope and tailored for an expeditionary force,” McChrystal said in his order. “MWR should never be the distracter that changes the focus of the mission.”
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/02/military_AAFES_afghanistan_mcchrystal_020510w/
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: World Vision - 3/26/2010 2:23:24 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3593
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quote:
ORIGINAL: djv1255
Maybe I should have posted the link. This is from the Huffington Post.
I saw their source stories didn't mention Obama. But since Huffy Puffy Post did, that is the version I posted.
My apologies then for being so snippy it's just getting pretty deep in here the last few days. I can't believe Huffington got this wrong. Here is the Huffington link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/26/at-war-military-orders-wi_n_514566.html
This is the link that the HP link links to: (if anyone can follow that)
quote:
(March 25) -- President Barack Obama may be planning to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan starting in 2011, but one part of the American military force is already packing up and leaving: Dairy Queen, Orange Julius, Burger King and TGI Friday's restaurants located on U.S. bases in the country.
Fast-food restaurants, one of the trappings of home seen in larger bases in Kabul and Kandahar, are being shut down as part of the military's plans to increase troop levels.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/25/military-orders-afghan-withdrawal-of-tgi-fridays/19414700/
I believe a big part of the reason is logistics. The bases that we bring in supplies to Afghanistan are pretty limited in their scope. With the troop increases I can see the logic in it. Part of it may have been image in that we don't want to look like we're conquering them. Realistically though our supply lines are pretty limited in that part of the world.
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: World Vision - 3/26/2010 2:33:19 PM
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djv1255
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In principle, I can see what they are saying.
But the pizza, burgers and such are still going to be served so it basically takes up the same space.
What about the moral of soldier eating something from "home" like Pizza Hut or going to a TGI Fridays "restuarant".
_____________________________
My Current Issues Blog: Conservative Oversight of Progressive Stupidity
Favorite Photo Blog: US Military in Iraq and Afghanistan
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RE: World Vision - 3/26/2010 10:18:51 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: djv1255
In principle, I can see what they are saying.
But the pizza, burgers and such are still going to be served so it basically takes up the same space.
What about the moral of soldier eating something from "home" like Pizza Hut or going to a TGI Fridays "restuarant".
I went to the Stars and Stripes web page and looked this up and there was a couple of letters to the editor type things on this. One was from a Sargeant debating with the highest ranking enlisted man in the army who was for this and he said "I could care less about the fast food but for the young guys this is a morale booster."
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: World Vision - 3/26/2010 10:19:30 PM
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TrojanHusker
Posts: 277
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From: Nebraska
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Stage 4 of Afghani reconstruction?
The awarding of fast-food franchises!
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RE: World Vision - 3/26/2010 10:28:37 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TrojanHusker
Stage 4 of Afghani reconstruction?
The awarding of fast-food franchises!
From what I understand there is nothing stopping Afghani investors from opening up nearby fast food places.
_____________________________
This is our new cat. He doesn't have a name yet though he got the undeserved nickname of "Evil Kitty" from the kids.
No sign of our old kitten. We got a couple of phone calls but they couldn't grab him for us. : (
--Roger--
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RE: World Vision - 3/29/2010 2:51:47 AM
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djv1255
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Obama made a surprise visit to Afghanistan.
There is a video at Politico that has just the best parts of Obama's speech to the troops but applause also cut out.
White House has 20 minute version. May have to download to play. Once get past thanks to general this and general that, it is worth a viewing. Obama does put in an implied dig at Bush.
He does say what America should be. Too bad he doesn't say it her on US soil.
_____________________________
My Current Issues Blog: Conservative Oversight of Progressive Stupidity
Favorite Photo Blog: US Military in Iraq and Afghanistan
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RE: Is Afghanistan still a just war? - 4/30/2010 1:39:54 PM
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ik3900
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
If this corporal makes it back does anyone from across the pond know if this could get him a Victoria's Cross?
The VC is awarded for:
... most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy.
Although Corporal Neathway's dedication and bravery are remarkable, I'm not sure that the final element - "in the presence of the enemy" - is satisfied. Although it may well be on his next encounter with "Terry".
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