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The first Resurrection - 6/21/2010 4:27:51 PM
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ENOCH2010
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When is the first resurrection,spoken of in Revelation?
By "when" I mean,at the start of the Tribulation period,middle ways,or at the end of the Tribulation period.
< Message edited by ENOCH2010 -- 6/21/2010 4:43:38 PM >
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/21/2010 7:18:23 PM
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ENOCH2010
Posts: 131
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Where are all the opinions on this topic?This question puts an end to the pre trib theory.The Bible plainly says when the rapture is,but most people don't like what is says,so they change the word of God to a more pleasant sounding time.
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/21/2010 9:23:24 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2522
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ENOCH2010
Where are all the opinions on this topic?This question puts an end to the pre trib theory.The Bible plainly says when the rapture is,but most people don't like what is says,so they change the word of God to a more pleasant sounding time.
quote:
This question puts an end to the pre trib theory.
What question?
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is mentioned here
Matt 27:51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
52 and the graves were opened; and many =(NOT ALL) bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection ,= (the FIRST)...
they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
"The rest" of the dead mentioned in Rev 20:5 are those “not” mentioned (or who were “not” raised) in verse 52 of Matt 27
quote:
Where are all the opinions on this topic?
I believe we all know that the first resurrection is in Christ Jesus, therefore this is quite clear
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. = HIS RESURRECTION = Matt 27
Over such….. the second death has no power ,
but
(DIFFERENT SUBJECT)
They shall be priests of God and of Christ, (THIS AGE)
and shall reign with Him…. a thousand years. (IN THE FUTURE)
quote:
This question puts an end to the pre trib theory.
Not quite, 
What we have there in Rev 20:6 is a perfect example of Johns reiteration of what was, what is, and what is to come.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/21/2010 9:31:19 PM
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ENOCH2010
Posts: 131
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Maybe
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/21/2010 9:42:41 PM
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prophecyteacher
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I'm not sure I am understanding your question. Could you give a reference you are asking about? It would make answering much easier.
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/21/2010 9:57:32 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 808
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, ENOCH2010.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ENOCH2010
When is the first resurrection,spoken of in Revelation?
By "when" I mean,at the start of the Tribulation period,middle ways,or at the end of the Tribulation period.
I'll help you get this started, 'cause I'm the oddball. Few of the patrons of this forum like what I have to say; so, if I say it, you may get a response ... just reactionary or out of spite! LOL!
We are already IN the middle of the final "seven" of Dani'el's 70 "sevens."
The first 3 1/2 years were fulfilled in the "ministry" of Yeshua` haMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) when He came the first time (His first advent or His first coming). It was HIS death that caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 27:50-53; Heb. 9:1-10:22) HE was the one who left the house of Isra'el desolate for the overspreading of THEIR abominations in rejecting Him as God's Messiah and their King! (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 23:37-39)
Therefore, if you are calling the seventieth "seven" the "Tribulation period," then it CANNOT be at the start of it. Therefore, His 2nd coming (His second advent), when He returns, CANNOT be pretribulational. Indeed, we are currently in the period of "tribulation" (Greek: thlipsis = "pressure" or "stress") when God's people, primarily the Jews, are under the stress of being hated by all men. That won't be relieved until the Jews of Jerusalem can finally say, "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHVH." "We welcome the Comer (Yeshua`) in the Name (or on the authority) of YHVH."
At best, it could be Prewrath ("middle ways," or when the final 3 1/2 years begin) or Posttribulational ("at the end"), but I firmly believe that He won't resurrect His own until He returns and sends out His messengers to gather His "elect" (His chosen ones). From all indications, IMO, He will come at the blowing of the seventh shofar (trumpet), and be bringing the seven bowls of judgment WITH Him, so to speak! That is, His Revealing (Parousia), or His Second Coming, dictates when they are poured out by seven messengers in rapid succession AS He comes!
Furthermore, I believe that these seven messengers who blow the shofars are probably seven of His prophets, because we know ONE of them claimed to be. (Rev. 21:9; 22:6-9)
When He sends out His messengers to gather His elect, THAT'S when the dead in Christ rise first, we who are alive and remain (the remnant) are transformed, and we are all raptured into the sky to meet the Lord (Master) Yeshua` in the air and on His way to Isra'el. He's got work to do and lives to save, and His first order of business is to gather His army.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/21/2010 11:32:26 PM
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ENOCH2010
Posts: 131
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, ENOCH2010.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ENOCH2010
When is the first resurrection,spoken of in Revelation?
By "when" I mean,at the start of the Tribulation period,middle ways,or at the end of the Tribulation period.
I'll help you get this started, 'cause I'm the oddball. Few of the patrons of this forum like what I have to say; so, if I say it, you may get a response ... just reactionary or out of spite! LOL!
We are already IN the middle of the final "seven" of Dani'el's 70 "sevens."
The first 3 1/2 years were fulfilled in the "ministry" of Yeshua` haMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) when He came the first time (His first advent or His first coming). It was HIS death that caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 27:50-53; Heb. 9:1-10:22) HE was the one who left the house of Isra'el desolate for the overspreading of THEIR abominations in rejecting Him as God's Messiah and their King! (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 23:37-39)
Therefore, if you are calling the seventieth "seven" the "Tribulation period," then it CANNOT be at the start of it. Therefore, His 2nd coming (His second advent), when He returns, CANNOT be pretribulational. Indeed, we are currently in the period of "tribulation" (Greek: thlipsis = "pressure" or "stress") when God's people, primarily the Jews, are under the stress of being hated by all men. That won't be relieved until the Jews of Jerusalem can finally say, "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHVH." "We welcome the Comer (Yeshua`) in the Name (or on the authority) of YHVH."
At best, it could be Prewrath ("middle ways," or when the final 3 1/2 years begin) or Posttribulational ("at the end"), but I firmly believe that He won't resurrect His own until He returns and sends out His messengers to gather His "elect" (His chosen ones). From all indications, IMO, He will come at the blowing of the seventh shofar (trumpet), and be bringing the seven bowls of judgment WITH Him, so to speak! That is, His Revealing (Parousia), or His Second Coming, dictates when they are poured out by seven messengers in rapid succession AS He comes!
Furthermore, I believe that these seven messengers who blow the shofars are probably seven of His prophets, because we know ONE of them claimed to be. (Rev. 21:9; 22:6-9)
When He sends out His messengers to gather His elect, THAT'S when the dead in Christ rise first, we who are alive and remain (the remnant) are transformed, and we are all raptured into the sky to meet the Lord (Master) Yeshua` in the air and on His way to Isra'el. He's got work to do and lives to save, and His first order of business is to gather His army.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
Roy (if I may) I have been lurking around this forum for quite a while,reading what everybody thinks about the end time.I have studyed the Bible for a long time trying to get ahold of this pre trib opinion,It is my belief that the pre trib rapture is NOT Biblical.I went from there to the mid trib camp,this makes a little more sence to me than pre trib,but not to my satifaction to be totaly Biblcal either.With all that said,I come to the conclusion that the "rapture" will take place after the dead in Christ rise.Just as the Bible states,After the tribulation of those days,with the sounding of the 7th trump,the dead in Christ will rise first,then we which are alive and remain will join them in the air.I agree with most of what you say about the end time,I just can't wrap my finger around the opinion that the tribulation period (or the last week of Dan)started with the distruction of the second temple.I realise with my theroy that a third timple needs to be built for the last week,which would be a slap in the face of God,for the ones that build it.After all the study I have done,I still don't know for sure who is right. Still studying.....Oh yeah you all will have to look over my spelling,I hope.
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/22/2010 12:04:38 AM
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Stormcrow
Posts: 587
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quote:
Where are all the opinions on this topic?
Other threads that are - essentially - discussing the same thing in different terms. Sorry...too busy to start all over on this stuff in yet another (sigh) thread. 
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/22/2010 12:32:11 AM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 214
Joined: 10/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ENOCH2010
When is the first resurrection,spoken of in Revelation?
Enoch2010,
I believe that the 'first resurrection' is spiritual and is occurring all the time. Believers who die go immediately to be with the Lord in heaven (Phil 1:21-23), where Jesus currently reigns "far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come" (Eph 1:21). Thus, in a very real sense, the believing dead come to life and reign with Christ throughout the church age (which I interpret as the 'millennium' of Revelation 20). That's the amillennialist position, anyway, and I think it's correct.
-Intrepidus
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/22/2010 7:57:42 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2522
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
quote:
ORIGINAL: ENOCH2010
When is the first resurrection,spoken of in Revelation?
Enoch2010,
I believe that the 'first resurrection' is spiritual and is occurring all the time. Believers who die go immediately to be with the Lord in heaven (Phil 1:21-23), where Jesus currently reigns "far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come" (Eph 1:21). Thus, in a very real sense, the believing dead come to life and reign with Christ throughout the church age (which I interpret as the 'millennium' of Revelation 20). That's the amillennialist position, anyway, and I think it's correct.
-Intrepidus
Greetings
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
To better understand this it could read as
And if Christ be in you, the Spirit is life…. because of righteousness,
HOWEVER….the body is dead because of sin;
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; =(BODY) …..that in all things he might have the “preeminence. “
The ALL things there is also our body…. that is dead because of sin
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit,
even we ourselves groan within ourselves, (because we are still in the fleshly tent) = waiting for the adoption, to wit, = the redemption of our body.
quote:
That's the amillennialist position, anyway, and I think it's correct.
If I am hearing this correctly, one is suggesting the amillennialist position concerning the first resurrection was already fulfilled (ALL_)
and is… currently going on by which we have been adopted?
I looked in the mirror this morning and I haven seen my resurrected body as of YET
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/22/2010 9:00:40 AM
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ENOCH2010
Posts: 131
Joined: 6/21/2010
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Could you all tell me which camp I belong in,or am I in a camp alone? I believe the 70th week is yet to be fullfilled,I believe a third temple will be built where again the A/D will be revealed,I believe the Lord will return AFTER the tribulation of those days with the Saints who have died in the Lord, to raise their dead bodies,and we which are alive and remain will be called up to meet the Lord in the air.It says in revalation that THIS is the first resurrection.
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/22/2010 9:52:55 AM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 225
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My take on this is similar to yours. I'm Pre-Wrath.
Your eschatological position is:
- Pre-Millennial -which is a broad category- (some call this "futurisitc" as opposed to the Catholic Church's Ammillennial position)
- Post Tribulation, -which is a subset of Pre-Millennial- but your take is not necessarily in the classical sense being at the strict "last day" of the one 'seven,' as is commonly held
--- Pre-Wrath is also "Post-Trib."
--- Historic Pre-Millennialism (being the first position of the pre-Roman Catholic Church) was 'Post-Trib' and it was also 'Pre-Wrath.'
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/22/2010 2:11:44 PM
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ENOCH2010
Posts: 131
Joined: 6/21/2010
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Whew !!!! I can finally lay claim to a camp. I am a pre millennial-post trib believer.How many of us are on here?
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 1:45:16 AM
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Intrepidus
Posts: 214
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
I looked in the mirror this morning and I haven seen my resurrected body as of YET
You're assuming that the first resurrection is physical. As I mentioned above, I believe it is spiritual.
-Intrepidus
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 2:12:33 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 808
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, Intrepidus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Intrepidus
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
I looked in the mirror this morning and I haven seen my resurrected body as of YET
You're assuming that the first resurrection is physical. As I mentioned above, I believe it is spiritual.
-Intrepidus
That's because of your definition of "spiritual." Take a look at the contrasts (preferably in the Greek) within the 15th chapter of I Corinthians, particularly from about verse 35 on, and look at the Greek and the Hebrew for the difference between the "soul" and the "spirit." You will find first that "spirit" is the "breath" while the "soul" is the creature that "breathes." Furthermore, both animals and human beings have both "spirits" and are "souls." With that basic understanding, you will find that a "spiritual body" is FAR different than you might have expected at first!
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 2:35:30 AM
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kelman
Posts: 5470
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ENOCH2010
When is the first resurrection,spoken of in Revelation?
By "when" I mean,at the start of the Tribulation period,middle ways,or at the end of the Tribulation period.
When the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of the "rebirth" - this is the first resurrection. Our spirit has been "raised" from death to eternal life. And, now, we await the day our bodies are "raised" to eternal life(the second resurrection).
We see this spiritual rebirth/spiritual resurrection spoken about in Eph 2:5-6 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"
_____________________________
.... for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Psalm 138:2
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 2:48:48 AM
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Stormcrow
Posts: 587
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quote:
When the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of the "rebirth" - this is the first resurrection.
That's not what the Bible says.
quote:
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
The first resurrection consists of those slain for their testimony who are raised from the dead to reign with Christ during His millennial kingdom. The second resurrection happens after the 1,000 years are over. This (second) resurrection is for judgment.
The bodies of those raised will be incorruptible and imperishable: they will be like Christ in His glorified body. This is not a spiritual resurrection but a physical one, just as Christ's was.
One more thing: put parentheses around this sentence, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."
Now, read it again with the parenthetical struck out:
quote:
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
Again, the first resurrection consists of martyred saints, those over whom the "second death" (hell) would have no power. (In other words, those who - by their ultimate sacrifice for the Lord - would never be sent to hell. Period.)
Here is the second resurrection:
quote:
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15 (NKJV)
The Great White Throne Judgment happens after the millennial reign of Christ, when all the dead are raised in a physical resurrection to be judged. This is the second resurrection and it is followed by the "second death" for those not written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
< Message edited by Stormcrow -- 6/23/2010 3:09:06 AM >
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 3:28:11 AM
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kelman
Posts: 5470
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stormcrow
quote:
When the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of the "rebirth" - this is the first resurrection.
That's not what the Bible says. Kind of odd since I just quoted those passages from the Bible.
quote:
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
The first resurrection consists of those slain for their testimony who are raised from the dead to reign with Christ during His millennial kingdom. Does it say anything about a "millenial kingdom"?...no, it does not. The Book of Revelation is a highly metaphoric book. So, it's no surprise that we again find God using the term "1,000" figuratively. Search the Bible and we find 10, 100, 1,000 to mean the completion of whatever is in view.
All those who do not remain slaves to Satan(figuratively referred to as mark of the beast) "...came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years....Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years".
The "second death" has no power over those raised to newness of life(first resurrection) and they will reign with the Lord Jesus Christ for the completeness of what is in view - eternity.
_____________________________
.... for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Psalm 138:2
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 7:47:53 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2522
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stormcrow
quote:
When the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of the "rebirth" - this is the first resurrection.
That's not what the Bible says.
quote:
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
If I may
See where is says in Rev 20 "and they came to life" and reigned "with Christ
The born again reference there is they "came to life"
or in other words came to Christ
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand;
The prophecy is 2 Fold
There are those who may have not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand... but still worshiped the beast "or" his image =a goner
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand;
and they (came to life) or were born again and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the passage is just circular in the same sense concerning the first resurrection
The first resurrection also applied when born again to those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand;
Paul in 2 Thess 2 basically said to us that pattern "in the day of the Lord" concerning we who are alive and those who remain,( where the word "remain" there is the KEY in reference to those in Rev 20)
.... He said that (those will be of the first resurrection) and in like manner this will not change unto the coming of the Lord and as well that same pattern will no change concerning the dead in Christ unto the coming of the Lord.... or the actual SC
SO in truth there really is not too much to suggest that those in Rev 20 were just suddenly zapped into life without being born again, in the physical day of the presence of the Holy God
God is no respecter of persons, if so.... then He lied to us all these years
The scripture reads, those who endure TILL the end the SC... will be saved = Those in Rev 20 = they (came to life) before the END
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 8:58:00 AM
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ENOCH2010
Posts: 131
Joined: 6/21/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stormcrow
quote:
When the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of the "rebirth" - this is the first resurrection.
That's not what the Bible says.
quote:
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
The first resurrection consists of those slain for their testimony who are raised from the dead to reign with Christ during His millennial kingdom. The second resurrection happens after the 1,000 years are over. This (second) resurrection is for judgment.
The bodies of those raised will be incorruptible and imperishable: they will be like Christ in His glorified body. This is not a spiritual resurrection but a physical one, just as Christ's was.
One more thing: put parentheses around this sentence, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."
Now, read it again with the parenthetical struck out:
quote:
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
Again, the first resurrection consists of martyred saints, those over whom the "second death" (hell) would have no power. (In other words, those who - by their ultimate sacrifice for the Lord - would never be sent to hell. Period.)
Here is the second resurrection:
quote:
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15 (NKJV)
The Great White Throne Judgment happens after the millennial reign of Christ, when all the dead are raised in a physical resurrection to be judged. This is the second resurrection and it is followed by the "second death" for those not written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
Since the FIRST resurrection is clearly placed in time when the tribulation of those days are over,at the begining of the millennial reign of Christ.Can we not say as a FACT that the rapture will be at the same time?If so how do the pre trib believers put the rapture before the tribulation begins?That has been my intent with this post all along,hopefully the pre tribers will see the truth before they are so disappointed they turn away
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 10:05:54 AM
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Montana Marv
Posts: 423
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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To All
I tend to agree with Stormcrow here. The first Resurrection was Jesus Christ when He came out of the tomb. He came out of the tomb bodily. Not a spiritual resurrection, for Thomas was able to put his finger into Christs nail pierced hands and his hand into Christs spear pierced side. The first resurrection is a bodily resurrection. Satan's hold over us is a physical death, not a spiritual death. The first resurrection is the reuniting of our spiritual body and our physical body, and thus given eternal life. The second resurrection is the resurrection of the dead (those who's names are not in the Lambs Book of Life) and they being sent to the Lake of Fire.
In Christ
Montana Marv
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 10:51:02 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2522
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ENOCH2010
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stormcrow
quote:
When the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of the "rebirth" - this is the first resurrection.
That's not what the Bible says.
quote:
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
The first resurrection consists of those slain for their testimony who are raised from the dead to reign with Christ during His millennial kingdom. The second resurrection happens after the 1,000 years are over. This (second) resurrection is for judgment.
The bodies of those raised will be incorruptible and imperishable: they will be like Christ in His glorified body. This is not a spiritual resurrection but a physical one, just as Christ's was.
One more thing: put parentheses around this sentence, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."
Now, read it again with the parenthetical struck out:
quote:
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB77)
Again, the first resurrection consists of martyred saints, those over whom the "second death" (hell) would have no power. (In other words, those who - by their ultimate sacrifice for the Lord - would never be sent to hell. Period.)
Here is the second resurrection:
quote:
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15 (NKJV)
The Great White Throne Judgment happens after the millennial reign of Christ, when all the dead are raised in a physical resurrection to be judged. This is the second resurrection and it is followed by the "second death" for those not written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
Since the FIRST resurrection is clearly placed in time when the tribulation of those days are over,at the beginning of the millennial reign of Christ.Can we not say as a FACT that the rapture will be at the same time?If so how do the pre trib believers put the rapture before the tribulation begins?That has been my intent with this post all along,hopefully the pre tribers will see the truth before they are so disappointed they turn away
Greetings
Since the FIRST resurrection is clearly placed in time when the tribulation of those days are over, at the beginning of the millennial reign of Christ. Can we not say as a FACT that the rapture will be at the same time?
...actually when Matt 24:30 is fulfilled, the tribulation of those days are over... so it had to have a beginning
So we can't say as a FACT the rapture will be at that same time ... because its over... there is no need for it...
Jesus is at this time either has already arrived or is returning with ten thousands of His Saints.
If the rapture was occur as you mentioned, those who endured till the end when Jesus "arrived" ....they would all be at the back of the bus... so to speak
... so why bother rapturing them who came to life when the tribulation of those days are over?
When indeed they are meeting the Lord Head on at the advent, assuming they are born again.
And that is written here…. with Paul prophesying as if “in the First Person” of the prophecy
1Cr 15:51 Behold, “I shew you” a mystery;
KEY=
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, “at the last trump”: for the trumpet shall sound,
KEY= and the dead shall be raised “incorruptible”, and ….“we” shall be changed.
What we have there in 1Cr 15 It’s a little bit different then what is written in 1 Thess 4,
In 1Cr 15 is written in the context when the ENTIRE harvest is complete,
1 Thess 4… was not yet complete
Therefore the reference to “being changed” did not appear in 1 Thess 4… especially as it applied to the dead in Christ
quote:
That has been my intent with this post all along, hopefully the pre tribers will see the truth before they are so disappointed they turn away
We already know the truth…. 
What your assuming up there is in opposite of what the scripture says… one needs to read what the scripture said in the letter to the Church at Philadelphia
We already have the power and the knowledge to endure
Here is where the pre-tib bashers get confused…..
The Rapture and the resurrection “are not”… the …same… thing.
If one can keep this little tid-bit in the back of their mind, it may just help to open up a ton of other scripture
And this is…..
....that....
The First resurrection is not the rapture = John 17:15
BUT Those of the first resurrection =(Jesus resurrection) ….will be... raptured
That’s what we call the word of God,
SO.....if I was follow your opinions…… then my reward in like manner…. would be to share in it with you
Not in this house
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: The first Resurrection - 6/23/2010 11:07:47 AM
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Stormcrow
Posts: 587
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
The born again reference there is they "came to life"
or in other words came to Christ
Being "born again" is a spiritual birth. Resurrection is a physical "quickening" that happens when a dead physical body is brought back to life. Lazarus and Jesus are examples of resurrections.
But again, what part of "this is the first resurrection" are you people not grasping???
quote:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
The "eternal life" Christ promises is both spiritual (being "born again") and physical (resurrection unto life). They are NOT the same thing because - as noted in Revelation 20 - there is a resurrection that leads to the "second death" for those not found in the Lamb's Book of Life!
Really, this is not that hard to grasp since Christ made it plain to John in Revelation 20!
"Born again" = Spiritual rebirth.
"Resurrection" = Physical reanimation from a state of clinical death (as in the case of Lazarus and Jesus).
"Resuscitation" = Physical revival from a state of near-death (brain activity still present) to a state of being alive (vital signs return).
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