|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/1/2010 1:02:18 PM
|
|
|
Auben
Posts: 1123
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Where pines tower and cranberries float
Status: offline
|
We're starting our new selection, Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged.
Ayn Rand, born Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum, was born in 1905 in Russia. Her family lost its property in the Russian revolution. After college she immigrated to the United States and worked as in Hollywood at various jobs before selling her first screenplay and producing her first play. In 1935 she wrote her first novel We the Living based on her experience in Communist Russia as a teenager and college student.
Written in 1957 Atlas Shrugged is her last and longest novel, and is considered to be her magnum opus. It most clearly expresses her philosophy Objectivism.
As a fun fact, after 50 years of control over the copyright by Rand and her successor (both wanted full script approval) Atlas Shrugged just started filming last month. Previous attempts had always failed in the script stage.
Has anyone read Rand before? What do you think of her philosophy and other books?
_____________________________
Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/1/2010 1:38:33 PM
|
|
|
eaglelady11
Posts: 308
Joined: 7/20/2005
Status: offline
|
I read We the Living a while back. There are many layers to that book: anti-Communism, pro-capitalism, a strong woman protagonist who wants to get an engineering degree, which is a male -dominated field, the two men in her life represent different ideals: one guy joins the Party and becomes a Mr. communist; the other guy is a free spirit, anti-establishment type. She is always torn between the two: security vs. freedom. at the end, when she tries to run for the border, the girl is shot and dies.
You can make of that what you want. when we discussed the book we discussed how joining an organization can lead to being de-individualized and homogenized into a group identity. we talked about the need for security vs. freedom. Promiscuity vs. chasteness and capitalism vs. communism.
Atlas Shrugged I never read-too long, but I think it might take those same themes, engineering, building a society, a handsome man that the female lead wants to sleep with and capitalism and its effect on a person's soul.
another thing about Ayn Rand philosophy, she promotes rational selfishness. she says begin selfish and looking out for oneself is good. It might come from her anti-communist share everything background. One of her ex-husbands wrote a book about her saying she was very insecure.
Good luck.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/1/2010 4:20:59 PM
|
|
|
lightbeamrider
Posts: 302
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
|
Read We The Living, Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged at least twice. In the Soviet Union Atlas Shrugged was banned and a person in possession of this book could face imprisonment. Gave my last copy to my nephew and never got it back which means i will have to go out and buy another. I remember a quote although i don't know if it is exact.
''Private property is superstition. One holds property only by the courtesy of those who do not cease it.''
The chapter containing John Galt's speech towards the end was a little windy and long but otherwise it is one of my favorites. Right up there with Don Quijote, both books by Cervantes.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/1/2010 7:16:18 PM
|
|
|
lightbeamrider
Posts: 302
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
|
''One holds property only by the courtesy of those who do not seize it.'' Not cease, which was a boo boo. Sometimes i miss the obvious. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/2/2010 7:51:14 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2155
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
I checked Atlas Shrugged out of the Library last month and only read about the first 80 pages before I had to take it back. It just never piqued my interest I guess. Plus I'm obviously a slow reader and I'd probably have to renew it a few times to get all the way through. LOL
_____________________________
greatdivide46
He said he had been deeply worried about having a general aesthetic and had been delighted to be offered the epidural in his spine. -- Jane Elliott, BBC News
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/2/2010 12:36:47 PM
|
|
|
jazzact13
Posts: 706
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
I tried a read it a few years ago, think I got about mid-way through the last of it's three or four sections.
It's a book of some intererst, and seems to be gaining some popularity today, mostly as a reaction to some "spread the wealth" comments made by politicians and legislation that threatens to put that idea into action.
I think she makes some good points economically. The idea that much of the rhetoric of 'taking from the rich to give to those who don't have' is simply attempts by some to gain and keep power is one thing to keep in mind when dealing with some who rave about things like "social justice". We're seeing how policies designed to take away the rewards earned by those who take risks are causing them to not take risks, so effecting the creation of jobs and even causing the lose of work, not to mention wealth in some areas.
On the other hand, she undercuts her arguments with her atheism. I find it interesting that one of the only points at which she agreed with the Communists was in the rejection of God.
And her morality is decidedly questionable. Through the story her heroine, Danny Taggart, sleeps with three of her acceptable men, and at no point are her actions questioned or condemned. The impression I got rather was that she was simply 'upgrading' to use a term that's probably come about since the book was published. I do think that her first lover had problems with her latter exploits, but even that was seen more as something he had to ovecome than as her being wrong.
Her pretty much wholesale rejection of charity is another serious problem. In the "real world", the one outside of her books and the 'idyllic' setting of Galt Valley, people get sick or injured or lose jobs becaus of bad economies, or simply grow old and too feeble to work as hard as they once could, and need help. There is no conflict between working hard and earning wealth, and helping in charitable ways.
_____________________________
The ACORN doesn't fall far from the "O"ak
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/2/2010 6:05:27 PM
|
|
|
lightbeamrider
Posts: 302
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
|
You won't get a lot of laughs out of reading Atlas Shrugged. The characters are serious types (except Francisco, The fellow from Mexico) and Dagney Taggert is to be admired for her ability and spine but not much else. Being Atheists they are selective in their values, not unlike a lot of church folks. Dagney comes off as somewhat snobbish and humorless. She is kept in the dark for a large part of the novel and is determined to make things work under the new system which is run by thugs and half wits with little or no real ability. There is a soap opera quality about the novel as Dagney tediously goes from man to man.
Although it is a work of fiction it is to some extent based on real events which happened under Stalinist Russia. All the folks with ability and high education were either killed to dragged off to the Gulag. Thugs ran the show and the country lacked people with real ability to keep things going.
The idealized man is in the character of John Galt who invented the motor which runs on static electricity. (a little sci fi thrown in for good measure) and the other two in which i do not remember their names. All these characters and more basically withdraw from an oppressive society to watch it crumble. A society which sought to seize everything and perhaps make slaves out of key players. So the main characters outwit them at every turn. Francisco is somewhat funny about it.
Rand is an exceptional writer and that is reason enough to read her books. If i can find a writer in which i can connect then the plot is incidental. The real enjoyment comes from pondering the meaning of it all. So check your premise and take your time with this book. It is one book i never had no real regrets reading.
Remember... there are no contradictions, whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, you need to check your premise. That's another line i remember from the book
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/2/2010 8:41:51 PM
|
|
|
crankius
Posts: 3354
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
I read this book last year.
A bleak Godless book, but still very interesting politically and economically.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
I've heard that the plot is remarkably telling about the way our society has gone since then.
True, especially when we read news like this: "Venezuela's government has seized control of 11 oil rigs owned by U.S. driller Helmerich & Payne..."
"Government critics and many business owners argue the takeovers violate private property rights."
Ya think?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
God's Attributes
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/3/2010 7:26:19 AM
|
|
|
Random
Posts: 811
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Zipperhead
Status: offline
|
I got the audio book from audible (all 63 hours of it). I listen at 1.7 speed, but that's still almost 40 hours of listening! I will get through it...
_____________________________
Check out my blog:
http://finance4nerds.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/3/2010 1:33:49 PM
|
|
|
Abbreviated
Posts: 2326
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
63 hours !!!! It was a looongggg book.
_____________________________
1959-20__ Who are you living your dash for ?
Jackie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/7/2010 12:28:11 PM
|
|
|
ajbx10
Posts: 191
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
I checked Atlas Shrugged out of the Library last month and only read about the first 80 pages before I had to take it back. It just never piqued my interest I guess. Plus I'm obviously a slow reader and I'd probably have to renew it a few times to get all the way through. LOL
I couldn't get into this book either. Plus, I'm pretty busy this month and I don't have alot of time to read. I hope others are enjoying the book.
Cheryl
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/7/2010 4:11:45 PM
|
|
|
rowenah14
Posts: 163
Joined: 3/28/2010
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
|
I just started reading it yesterday. So far it's been interesting. The book is a lot longer than I'd imagined!
_____________________________
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/8/2010 9:42:23 AM
|
|
|
lightbeamrider
Posts: 302
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
|
If you want a fictional account concerning people who have the capacity to save the world, but choose to not save it, read Atlas Shrugged. If you want to know what college students read, today and in the past, while it is mostly ignored by the professors the read Atlas Shrugged. I googled Atlas Shrugged reviews and read perhaps 6 of them and they were mostly positive and especially so among the masses. It ranked 2nd most influential book behind the Bible according to a pole i read. I find all of that certainly true in my circumstances. Between good paying jobs, had occasion to work fundraising for Republicans at a whopping ten dollars an hour. It was mostly college students and had more then one discussion concerning this book with these students who loved it. Since the 50s this book has consistently been selling plenty of copies. So it must have something going for it. All in all it is worth the read.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/8/2010 11:35:24 AM
|
|
|
Abbreviated
Posts: 2326
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
When I was reading it I thought of how it paralleled the US government today.
It could have been edited down. Towards the end I was skimming.
_____________________________
1959-20__ Who are you living your dash for ?
Jackie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/10/2010 10:39:04 PM
|
|
|
Auben
Posts: 1123
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Where pines tower and cranberries float
Status: offline
|
My laptop is down everyone. It may be a while until I'm online on a regular basis.
Some questions:
*Do you think people's jobs or professions define them? Does Rand?
*How do you think Rand views the public or citizens in general?
*Do you find this novel to reflect how you view the world? A little? A lot? Not at all?
*How does Rand define 'morality?' Which characters are 'moral' and why?
*Did you find the characters more flat or 3-dimensional? Were certain characters more developed then others? Why?
For those who are new to the group, these aren't an assignment...more like a discussion starter. If one (or more) appeals to you feel free to answer.
_____________________________
Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/15/2010 5:55:32 AM
|
|
|
SamWeiss
Posts: 78
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
|
Funny, I would think on a Christian forum the promotion of virulently anti-Christian authors would be frowned upon? Today Ayn Rand, tomorrow Chris Hitchens?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/16/2010 9:46:07 AM
|
|
|
lightbeamrider
Posts: 302
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
|
As for the morality part, me thinks Rand defines evil as a sort of parasite which exists only by the courtesy of the good. Evil requires the sanction of the victim. If the good remove the sanction, evil will crumble. Good to Rand is embodied in the character of John Galt and to lessor degrees Hank Reardon and Francisco d'Anconia. In Rand's atheistic world man is at the center (as is Marxist man) and exceptional men accomplish great things. The parasites, on the other hand consists of various thugs and looters who think they can bully everybody into submission along with their collaborators. So there is two camps there. The good hide out somewhere and the evil crumbles as a result because they have no one to feed on.
In a way the book reminds me of Gone With the Wind in which the main character was Scarlett who had men competing for her attention including Rhett Butler who was probably the amoral idealized man in that novel. Both books were written by females and had females as protagonists and both alpha females had alpha males falling all over themselves for the attention of the alpha female which is fantasy. They are, after all, books of fiction. In the real world alpha males settle for less accomplished females. Successful females generally forfeit long lasting marriage and family as the farther up they climb the less they are able to find suitable mates. This is not an absolute. In Rands world everybody wants Dagney Taggert and Dagney takes two out for a test run and eventually picks Galt which is no real problem for anybody. All four characters have their world view in common and the three males have all bedded Dagney, and oh well, the best man won. Dagney is not only accomplished and has exceptional ability she is also liberated, to boot. What a package!
Conversations are never general. They start out slow and then evolve into diatribes. d'Anconia is down right snarky when dealing with the thugs who sought to overtake his business. His character to me was the most interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/16/2010 9:12:38 PM
|
|
|
jazzact13
Posts: 706
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Funny, I would think on a Christian forum the promotion of virulently anti-Christian authors would be frowned upon? Today Ayn Rand, tomorrow Chris Hitchens?
This isn't the promotion of the book, but a discussion of it.
_____________________________
The ACORN doesn't fall far from the "O"ak
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/18/2010 8:31:51 PM
|
|
|
rowenah14
Posts: 163
Joined: 3/28/2010
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
|
So far I'm finding the book quite interesting. I'll read on a bit more before I post my thoughts
_____________________________
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/19/2010 4:50:57 PM
|
|
|
Abbreviated
Posts: 2326
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
quote:
Funny, I would think on a Christian forum the promotion of virulently anti-Christian authors would be frowned upon? Today Ayn Rand, tomorrow Chris Hitchens?
This isn't the promotion of the book, but a discussion of it.
And how would we know unless we read it ? I didn't find her books anti-Christian.
_____________________________
1959-20__ Who are you living your dash for ?
Jackie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/22/2010 8:58:16 PM
|
|
|
rowenah14
Posts: 163
Joined: 3/28/2010
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
|
I haven't read as much of the book as I would have liked to since July is shaping up to be really busy. I quite like the book so far. It's very bleak but I've always been interested in dystopian novels. As a woman, I can't help but admire Dagny's zeal and ambition, although I believe it's misplaced. I'm also enjoying learning about the railway industry from the book
_____________________________
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
|
RE: July Book Club: Atlas Shrugged - 7/23/2010 12:27:02 PM
|
|
|
jazzact13
Posts: 706
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
And how would we know unless we read it ? I didn't find her books anti-Christian.
Have to disagree with your there. This book is plainly pushing her atheistic views. Perhaps the only thing she had in common with the Communist was they both were anti-God and anti-religion.
_____________________________
The ACORN doesn't fall far from the "O"ak
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
Rand is one of the most influential writers of the 20th century though. It's worth it to make the attempt. I've heard that the plot is remarkably telling about the way our society has gone since then.
I'm a slow reader and the characters seemed a bit 2-dimensional. I thought it might redeem itself later, but when I was warned about the 50 page monologue at the end I quit. 
. 